Talk:Jacob Hargreave
reference to FNV? the mission where you meet Hargreave and then he reveals his true self, anyone think it might be a refernce to Fallout: New Vegas where you find Mr. House to be also in that state? or is 'cold immortality' becoming very popular with 'bosses'. I thought this too! The game has been in development for a while, so it may be coincidental, but with other Fallout atmosphere and references in the game (most notably, walking across a broken crane tower -- in Cry2, you do it after crashing the CELL helicopter in "Lab Rat"; in Fallout 3, you do it while searching for Reilly's Rangers), I think the game designers are more than aware of Fallout in creating their own particular post-apocalypse. Saturnine23 04:28, June 7, 2011 (UTC) something cool when you meet him Hi when you see hargreave in the green tube before you take the syringe go right up to the green tube and look rightyou might find something you like XD p.s i forgot my wikia password Has anyone else noticed that Hargreave was 12 years old when he stole Ceph technology? "Born to middle class parents in Ohio in 1896, Hargreave enjoyed a relatively genteel early life later blighted by father's bankruptcy." "Hargreave is only alive as of 2023 because of his efforts in Tunguska in 1908 where he stole crashed ceph technology..." In 1908, Hargreave was 12 years old. That can't be right, surely. :His birthdate is from the bio in the official blog. Ausir(talk) 05:39, March 30, 2011 (UTC) :The problem is the date of the expedition, actually. It was in 1919 and 1920, NOT 1908. Read the Skyline reports on the blog for confirmation. ::It was 1908 according to the novel (as was the actual Tunguska event), but in the novel Alcatraz also speculates that Hargreave is even older than that. Ausir(talk) 23:36, April 1, 2011 (UTC) just thinking here, but.... What if the ceph took hargreave before the island went boom? New Profile Pic? I just extracted/converted this .Gif from the game. I think this would be perfectly creepy. Oh, well NVM Tried to bring this up earlier. I still think this applies. Why locked? Why is the Hargreave article locked? There are numerous grammatical and linguistic errors throughout, and a couple of inaccuracies in the Quotes section. In addition, I think Hargreave is more psychologically complex than the Personality section suggests, and there are a number of adjectives attached to Hargreave in that section that are subject to individual interpretation. I feel the section should be stripped down to the bare essentials in terms of what we know for sure about Hargreave. The following actions can be verified: *He is willing to rip the suit from Alcatraz despite the fact that Alcatraz was conscious; despite the fact that the procedure would most likely kill Alcatraz; and despite the fact that Alcatraz had been willingly assisting Hargreave for some time. Indeed, Hargreave is willing to kill Alcatraz ("Headshots only!") in order to acquire the suit for himself *He claims to be willing to fight the Ceph personally ("...wear Prohet's armor, enter the labyrinth and confront the Minotaur.") *He demonstrates that his overall priority is to protect humanity: when it is clear that he can't get the suit, he voluntarily provides Alcatraz with the Tunguska Iteration, something Alcatraz probably would not have been able to find or access on his own. *He repeatedly claims that it's time for humanity to become posthuman: **"Time for the whole human race to wake up." **"This isn't a war ordinary humans can win." **"I turned Delta operators from the first game into posthuman warriors." *He carried Rasch out of Tunguska after the encounter with the Ceph and assumed leadership of the expedition *He orchestrated the events at Lingshan in order to test the Nanosuit systems against the Ceph; consequently, he woke the Ceph and initiated the invasion of New York. *Claims to admire effeciency and innovation in ANY form, including the Ceph, as characterized by his reaction to the Ceph cleanup crews: "Exemplary." *Claims to lament the death of Major Reeves and his CELL troops. *Claims to lament his current condition: "So sweet while it lasts," and "The child who learnt to fear Hell is never really gone." *Goes on a misanthropic rant: "Strive for your species in all its fumbling, half-made glory." *Seems to have a low opinion of New York: "You think I based my operation here because I LIKE IT?" In addition, we have Strickland's claim that Hargreave believes that "he's on the only competent human being on the planet." As someone who has no problem being manipulative and, in his own words, "economical with the truth," we cannot necessarily trust what he says or claims. However, judging from his actions alone, he is: *Quite ruthless in the pursuit of his goals *Capable of taking enormous calculated risks *Capable of making sacrifice gambits and absorbing acceptable losses *Driven by a strong will to survive *Loyal to humanity at the expense of his own desires, whether those be challenging the Ceph personally or walking one last time. In other words: he is demonstrably capable of giving up what he WANTS for what he, and others, NEED. If we give credence to his WORDS, it is possible to speculate the following: *He appears to think humanity's evolutionary trajectory should involve posthumanism *He appears to care for the men under his command despite the fact that they are often expendable (and he must treat them as such) *He appears to admire efficiency and good strategy in ANY form, even from his enemies. *It is possible that he feels humanity, in its "fumbling, half-made glory," needs HIS guidance and protection to see it not only through the Ceph crisis, but its nascent posthumanity. *It is possible that he wants the nanosuit to fight the good fight against the Ceph... but it is just as possible that he wants the nanosuit to regain his lost humanity. Probably both. *Hargreave's e-mail to Gould suggests that he is satisfied passing the torch to Gould and Alcatraz -- though not without regret A complex character. Finally, I think a section should be added on Hargreave and posthumanism. Posthumanism is the product of numerous scholars. Though it has multiple definitions, the one that is most applicable to Crysis 2 and Jacob Hargreave is transhumanism: the use of technology to facilitate new ways of being human. Donna Haraway is one of the pioneers of this subject with her article, "A Cyborg Manifesto." To wit: as technology becomes a part of our daily lives, from a car to air conditioning to an iPod to the Internet, it facilitates lived experience in such a way that we move beyond what we would be like in a technological vacuum. This is epitomized in the cyborg, which is inextricably bound to technology, but technology allows the cyborg to be more than human in ways that the cyborg desires. The data storage and network access available to machines; the strength and resilience of mechanical parts; and the new ways of defining the self facilitated by mechanical interactions are all aspects of posthumanism. The catch is that once you're posthuman, you're no longer wholly human. The nanosuit, and nanosystems in general, exemplify posthumanism. They allow a soldier to have increased access to battlefield information and awareness; they provide a soldier with superior strength, speed, mobility, lethality, and the ability to infiltrate. Delta Force, SEAL, and Force Recon are already highly motivated, highly trained individuals who push the limits of what the human body is capable of. Now imagine what they could do if their abilities, motivation, and training were augmented by nanosystems. Crysis is a limited environment: you can move, jump, climb, and shoot, and enemy responses are limited. In the Real World, the nanosuit would convey a much wider range of augmentation, allowing one soldier to do the work of hundreds. But the suits are symbiotic. They won't let you go, even in death; and under certain circumstances, you can't live without them. And you certainly can't perform as well without them. Just my two cents. J.Gaius 03:52, May 6, 2011 (UTC) Applause Applause Yes. Yes. All that and then some. Richard Morgan is pretty clear that he intended all his characters to be morally ambiguous, and I don't think that's any clearer than in the character of Hargreave. He represents a peculiar blend of old world values and near-future technology. He wants humanity to survive; he wants the best for Earth; he feels a personal sense of responsibility and guilt. But he's also willing to sacrifice the means for his ends. And he positively feels that humanity cannot win against the Ceph without appropriating their technology -- even if that means subjecting unwilling human test subjects to battlefield trials. He is absolutely a transhumanist thinker. This article needs to be unlocked for basic grammar edits (actually the reason I signed up for this site; I hoped to do some basic polishing and editing) and needs to be developed in terms of Hargreave's psychological state. References to FM-2030/ Fereidoun M. Esfandiary may also help. J. Gaius (http://crysis.wikia.com/wiki/User:J.Gaius), thank you. You're a great writer and thinker, and an asset to this Wiki. Stick around. (First post to any wiki; sorry for any errors.) Saturnine23 04:22, June 7, 2011 (UTC)